(no subject)

[crantz]

Hey, nerds. Did the Hobbits ever show any religious inclination? If so, gimme examples. I need to know.


For a thing.

Comments

[dogstar]

Other than for a nice tea?

[crantz]

That's only religion for the british

[melannen]

IIRC, they had a sort of vague belief in the old Elvish legends (Iluvatar, Elbereth, Earendil, etc.) but not in a way that was directly relevant to their lives - sort of the way secular Christians don't not believe, and they know the mythology (sort of), but don't actually, like, pray regularly or go to church or do rituals or anything.

Bilbo kind of had a thing for Elvish religion, though. And Sam was all about Elbereth - he recited the "A Elbereth Gilthoniel" verse in extremis when he was fighting Shelob, and generally reacts in a very awe-struck way when it happens.

[crantz]

"Have you heard the good song of Illuvatar?"

I need to reread the Shelob fight scene, both to see that and because that was a fairly epic scene. And satisfying, because a spider gets stabbed

[lavendertook]

But, but, but we learned all this in MESPT--surely you know--you played dozens of Valar!!! (-:

I guess you'd have to define how you're using the term "religious inclination" first.

I know a lot of Tolkien scholars have written on this stuff, but I'm not up on this part of the scholarship.

The Hobbits interact with a sort-of-god/Maiar in Gandalf on a regular basis, so that kind of complicates things. We're not shown any religious practice or ritual among the Hobbits, but Elvish language and history and geneology is wrapped up with the Valar, so I'd say any interest the Hobbits have in Elvish tales would be an interest in the spiritual.

Frodo's spontaneous chant to Earendil (descended from a Maiar) when he pulls out the star-glass in Shelob's lair and Sam's spontaneous chant to Elbereth when he is about to fight Shelob would definitely count as spiritual experiences. So do Frodo and Sam have religious inclinations or would you call it spiritual inclinations instead? I'd need to define those terms, and the difference is kind of murky to me. Could you class Frodo's and Bilbo's sailing to the Blessed Realms as a religious voyage? Maybe--again it depends on how you're defining religious vs spiritual. Are the Ring and the star-glass religious relicts or just magical items? I dunno--the fantasy genre and Tolkien's use of it messes with those categorical borders.

You could argue that the speaking of Elvish itself is a religious practice, since the Numenoreans who kept speaking Elvish were called "the Faithful," while the fall of Numenor was wrapped up with their turning away from the Elves and the use of Elvish.

There you go! Do I get my nerd points?

[crantz]

Funnily enough, it is for an RP thing I'm asking. I play Ruby Gamgee in another rp that's been adopted by an elf and the religious discussion is taking place at some point. I needed to decide how much Ruby would know, and whether or not I could amuse myself by having a five year old hobbit try to explain the big bang theory.

I honestly consider spiritual and religious to be the same thing, but that's probably because I'm an atheist and I've never really had to consider them deeply. It is a gap in my knowledge.

The maiar/valar etc being so solid and actually *there* does sort of mess with the religious stuff a bit. Like, there's no mention of having to sacrifice pies to Tulkas or anything.